Date: 24 Nov 2000
Time: 19:54:51
Just musing...
Our congregation hangs the greens the Saturday before 1st Advent Sunday. So we'll have evergreen boughs, wreaths, etc all over the church (it's really lovely).
For Luke 21:33, hold up a dry, crumpled leaf (plentiful in our area right now) and a branch of fresh evergreen. Talk about how every year the deciduous trees lose their leaves -- even though they seem so green, healthy and strong in July, by November they are all shriveled and dead. But the evergreen trees keep their needles all year around.
Lots of things change around us. The seasons change, children grow up, friends move away, sometimes loved ones even die. Those things are like the tree leaves -- beautiful in their time, but they don't last. The Bible promises us that God's word never changes and never ends. It's like the evergreen trees that don't lose their needles.
That's one reason why we decorate our church with evergreens at Advent -- to remind us of God's unchanging, undying love and promises.
Janet in MD
Date: 24 Nov 2000
Time: 19:55:56
Sorry, meant to post that last bit in the Children's messages section.
Janet in MD
Date: 26 Nov 2000
Time: 17:14:43
Janet - thanks for your musings - I oftentime find that adults get more out of "children's sermons" than the kids!
How often it seems that, when bad things happen, our ready assumption is that God has abandoned us. Today's text tells us that these are times to look up - the presence of calamity is the sign of God's sure presence. This idea does not fit in well with a "theology of glory," but is right at home with a "theology of the cross." God promises us that, exactly when we seem to be furthest from his promises, he is most near to us. That is what Advent is all about. As Mary and Joseph also prepare to go to Bethlehem, any rational reading of their situation comes up with a bleak forecast - an aging father, an unwed mother, a time rife with hopelessness and despair. Nevertheless, God is about to play out his greatest miracle. We come to the end of our resources, and all seems bleak. But now the way is opened for God to do his mighty work.
I have an uncle who is an alcoholic. A few years ago, he "dried out" and tried to get his life back in order. But he was never very strong. As his alcoholism progressed, it was my aunt who took over all the chores of daily living. She did the finances, the cooking, the cleaning - even the repairs around the house. He had just gotten back on his feet when she was diagnosed with cancer - the result of too many years of smoking. Suddenly he was thrust into the role of caregiver, as well as having to take care of everything else. We thought it was a sure recipe for failure.
Yet he survived - and has remained "dry." In the midst of all that was going on, his AA group support and his church helped him learn the meaning of faith - a faith that was immediately put to work in the difficult tasks he faced. His faith is strong and deep. Since then he, himself has faced several bouts with cancer. Each time, it seems only to deepen his faith in a loving God who, nevertheless, will never let him go.
When all seems lost, the light grows dim, and all hope seems gone - it is time to look up. God is coming!
Gary in New Bern http://www.standy.org
Date: 27 Nov 2000
Time: 14:05:26
I just want to say how thankful I am for this web site and all the people who make contributions each week. It really makes me feel like I am part of a greater community, not to mention the great help in preparing a sermon. thanks - sc in Midland.
Date: 27 Nov 2000
Time: 18:15:21
Y2K reappeared to me this week. As I began to sign a marriage license I noticed that the words "nineteen hundred and" were crossed out on the document (cheap county, eh, that sells these things that don't look so good anymore?). I think for the sermon this week I will remind everyone of the plans and worries we had a year ago as we all got ready for what might happen. Now that all the worry is over we are no longer prepared for emergencies or whatever. In the same way we get lax about preparing for the return of Jesus - take away the immediate threat and we act as if it will never happen. Bonnie
Date: 28 Nov 2000
Time: 03:22:09
Gary, Thanks for your moving story that illustrates the tension of this season so well. I have so many older couples in my congregation whose stories parallel that story. Even without the alcoholism, the caregiver/receiver seesaw is very real for them. And so is the sense of helplessness that would be there, were it not for their faith.
PS: If you type just "Advent" into your search engine, you will not be disappointed.
Sharon in Bethlehem
Date: 28 Nov 2000
Time: 11:56:58
Theme: Christian have a bi-focal vision of time, living with hope because of what Christ has done and what he has yet to do. 1. The confidence of the redeemed in the face of cosmic shak-up (vs. 25-28). 2. The certainty of God's word. 3. The strength of the prayfully alert. Important notes about the text: a) This text is written in the style of apocalytic genre. The present cataclysmic destruction of Jerusalem colides with a future vision of God's coming kingdom. It is important not to separate these two 'tenses' too rigidly within the text. Instead this paradoxical tension must be maintained within our preaching. The kingdom has come and is coming. b) I believe that the best understanding of this generation is derived from this bi-focal view. This generation is the 'last generation.' Thus the first disciples saw only in part 'these things' which continue to happen as we approach the parousia. In some ways, a parrallel can be drawn with Abraham, who received the promise and saw it beginning to be fulfilled. Thanks to all for your insights! A Canadian in Scotland
Date: 28 Nov 2000
Time: 14:56:08
Jane in MD
"On Change"
We cling to what is familiar, we hold on to what seems eternal, we are comfortable and at home when we are around things which do not disrupt. We even belong to congregations which are much like ourselves - if there is too much change we will go else where, willing to put up with that change than face the change back 'home.'
We don't allow too much room for the prophetic word or even the natural flow of life which constantly setting before us changes in our lives.
It seems to me that by 'holding on' to what is known we find ourselves threatened by the unknown - we feel as though our world is coming to an end, even when that disturbance is of God. And 'letting go' of our hold is scary and troublesome to those of us whose fists have grown tight around what is comfortable - Advent calls us to a new time, to let go of the past, to embrace the future, knowing that it is scary to welcome the dawn (as it was for Abraham to let go of his home and to embrace the fact that Sarah was to be with child). Can we enter Advent boldly - is it possible to see change (however not 'change' for change sake) as the place, the wilderness, where God is found.
How frightening it was for Joseph when he discovered that the woman with whom he was to marry was pregnant; how frightening it was for Mary to discover at such a young age, before she was married was with child - the future was not one that they anticipated - so it is with our life and the years in front of us.
tom in ga
Date: 28 Nov 2000
Time: 16:34:10
To Janet in MD:
This is not meant at all to be picky--but in fact, evergreens Do lose their needles. Just walk through the forest this time of year--the forest floor is as littered with pine and hemlock needles as it is with the dead leaves of deciduous trees. It's just that the needles keep being renewed, so there isn't a visibly dormant period for coniferous trees. I don't know that this tidbit has much to do with anything, except that our analogies and metaphors of necessity must limp when we use them to try to explain the mysteries and the extravagant hope of our faith. The same is true of butterflies and Easter--yes, butterflies come out of the "tomb" of the cocoon, but while in the cocoon, they are not really dead. Sometimes we can preach ourselves into corners if we carry our metaphors too far, or if we expound on them too long or too deeply. But isn't that marvellous, too? God's grace and love indeed do surpass all understanding! It may seem a bit gimmicky, but it might also be interesting intentionally to preach oneself into a corner to make that point--to throw ourselves totally, in the end, upon God's grace.
Al in the Poconos (where we have lots of evergreens)
Date: 28 Nov 2000
Time: 17:55:15
Al, thanks for the point about evergreens. I know they lose their needles (grew up in the Pacific Northwest, where we didn't have many non-evergreens!). But it actually helps the metaphor, since God's promises are new every morning!
I have less time to preach myself into a box with this metaphor, since I'm talking for five minutes to a bunch of four year olds. I have such love and admiration for all you folks who do the real heavy lifting of preaching!
Janet in MD
Date: 28 Nov 2000
Time: 18:08:19
Itseems to me there is a psychology of endtimes. We begin with cosmic scope as suggested in the Gospel--no one is exempt--there is a universal sweeeping away of the way of things as they are. At this very moment there is a sense apocalypse among the border Palestinians and other peoples in war borders (so much for Jer.'s peaceful Jerusalem.) There is also a crashing sense of tragedy in certain families struggling to cope with the changes that must be made in response to upheaval from loss or illness. Then there is the individual--in our lectionary group this morning, we spoke of the dying person, clearing away everything in her or his life that is not essential, getting ready to meet Jesus unburdened by possessions. A healthy psychology of endtime might be the growing awareness in we who still feel, maybe are, young--the awareness of how traveling light perserves our readiness to meet the Lord, not just Someday, but Now. We spoke of how difficult it is to get rid of things in our houses that we no longer need or use, of spring cleaning, of Advent cleaning. We spoke of the gift of God coming through the gifts we give others, especially when we give to the church missions or charities in honor of our friends and family (and in honor of Christ) instead of buying again more nonessentials to clutter up our living space and our minds. The psychology of endtime is Awareness, I believe, awareness that we keep our lamps lit, our hearts and homes as uncluttered as we can, our minds open to the consideration that none of us knows how long we have here, so every minute, every now does count. The Kingdom is Now. bpa in NYState
Date: 28 Nov 2000
Time: 18:32:02
We shall not cease from exploration And the end of all our exploring Will be to arrive where we started And know the place for the first time. T.S. Eliot, Four Quartets, NY, Harcourt (Harvest), 1971, page 59
Date: 28 Nov 2000
Time: 19:14:40
Sermonillustrations.com offers this tidbit: "When it is dark enough you can see the stars." This particular text pushes me to ponder on how God is experienced by those who are in darkness. Do they see the "starlight" of God's love and grace? The grieving, the lonely, the angry, the rejected... It is interesting to note that we cannot see stars during the daylight hours, only in the blackness of night!
Also, a question- where do we find a balance in preaching "doing" while we await Christ's return, and preaching "being" in God's grace as we wait?
Enjoying the conversation, Preacher Bill in Alberta
Date: 28 Nov 2000
Time: 20:48:26
I want to do something on the fact that so many people decorate their homes for Christmas. They put up lights and give so much time and energy to something that is beautiful but very passing. Homes are important and our personal home of our bodies is very precious too. We should make time to ready this home spiritually this Advent. Then we can truly be ready to allow God's coming to penetrate our being. The more we go deeper in this spiritual prep the more joyous our Christmas will be for us and our family. an old priest in Iowa
Date: 28 Nov 2000
Time: 21:30:06
Daniel Houghton from Idaho shared: At least in my part of the world, there will be a partial solar eclipse at its maximum at sunrise on Christmas Day. In light (or dark) of Luke 21:25 "There will be signs in the sun, the moon, and the stars..." we ought to be able to do something with this. Our theme this year is "Light out of Darkness." How appropriate! In any event, it's food for thought. For more info on the eclipse visit <www.christmaseclipse.com> I did and clicked on the local info chart which was all in Greenwich mean time. I also went to http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedform.html to get the eclipse time for my part of the country. in South Dakota the height of the viewing will be about 10:45 a.m. Pastormom in Viborg SD
Date: 29 Nov 2000
Time: 03:11:00
Maybe I'll just copy all your stuff and forget my focus -- or what I was going to focus on until I read all the good stuff here!
I thought I'd start out by saying how this scripture doesn't sound very much like Christmas -- no gentle shepherds, wise kings, tiny babies or gentle mama's here. Yet the passage, and the OT passage with it speak of the yearning for a king who would take over and raise Israel above the other nations -- kind of like what we do at Christmas -- who can give/get the biggest, most expensive, hardest to find gifts? Who can have the biggest, most elaborate decorations? And why is that so many non-Christians embrace Christmas? Could it be that they, too are looking for a king they haven't found? What is our responsibility as Christians to help them find that king?
Great story on "The Watchman Who Didn't" in Fortress Press' "Welcome the Babe: A Family Celebration of Christmas" (1980)
Guess this got to be more musings than focus. Sorry.
RevJan
Date: 29 Nov 2000
Time: 03:42:16
I have a question about the placing of this passage on the first Sunday of Advent. I have just an inkling of what might be the answer but am curious what others think and would appreciate feedback.
We are beginning Advent and the Christmas season in which we look forward to the joyful (well, most of us,...) celebration and gatherings of Christmas. Why, then, is there this apocalyptic (and synoptic) passage? It seems to contrast against the character of joy that we expect during this Christmas season...
A joyful Christmas to one and all... Will in CT
Date: 29 Nov 2000
Time: 04:38:25
Will in CT, Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again. Advent in anticipation of the coming of Christ. This is not simply a memorial of an event long ago, it is a longing for an event we experience now, in part, but long to experience in all of God's glory. Grace and peace, JRinBigD
Date: 29 Nov 2000
Time: 13:27:11
Will in CT, the lectionary deals with Advent which I understand to be a time to focus on the return of Christ. Then it turns to the "season" of Christmas: Christmas Eve, Christmas Day and the First Sunday after Christmas (and sometimes the second Sunday after Christmas I think).
I believe what most of us face is the church buying into the secular celebration of the Christmas "Season" which starts the day after Thanksgiving (in the U.S.) and thus we look for Christmas thoughts in the Advent passages.
John near Pitts.
Date: 29 Nov 2000
Time: 14:55:25
Hi, everybody! This is my first time to contribute anything to this forum. I would probably have never thought of using this passage of scripture during the month of December without looking at it here. I am of the genre of preacher that does not use the lectionary. However, I am intrigued with this concept. The interesting thing in my thoughts is that these words are being spoken by none other than Jesus Himself! Point is, the word of warning and hope spoken by Him becomes credible since He IS the fullest expression of hope. All history and the finger of God pointed to Him in preparation for the First Advent. This fact of assurance in God's promises makes the hope of fulfillment of ALL God's promises more real. God's promises to deal with my own personal dark days living here in this life are more real. God's promises for the extended future are also "Yea and Amen" because Jesus, the great Amen, said so! Hallelujah!
Paul in NC
Date: 29 Nov 2000
Time: 15:22:34
I received an advertisement in the mail that included a brief comment by Thomas Troeger about the strangeness of this Gospel text. It talks about the apocalypse, the time when everything will come unglued. Usually, when our stability is treatened, when the solid things we hold to begin to quake, our reaction is to run and hide. But Jesus said, "When these things begin to take place, stand up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near. Peterson translates Romans 8:22-25 "Waiting does not diminish us, any more than waiting diminishes a pregnant mother. We are enlarged in the waiting" It would seem we are not fear the outcome, whether it is an election, or a surgery, or a building campaign, but we are to "stand" boldly remembering the One who exists beyond the present or future apocalypse. JP in KY
Date: 29 Nov 2000
Time: 17:13:40
An Old Priest in Iowa
Homiletics Magizine from 1991 had a good article on that same idea from this passage. Here is the link http://www.homileticsonline.com/Installments/dec0191.htm I hope you find it helpful
Bill in Pembroke, VA
Date: 29 Nov 2000
Time: 17:57:53
advent...darkness...Y2K+1...emergency preparations...2000 candles on a birthday cake...solar eclipse...what should I get for Aunt Sallie???...why did I spend so much money LAST YEAR preparing for an emergency???...God must think we are totally crazy!!! Maybe we are. PrPLL in Pgh
***thanks to all for thoughtful insights***
Date: 29 Nov 2000
Time: 19:23:31
A Native American lady who is active up here in Alaska, grew up on Savoonga, St. Lawrence Island, which is closer to Russia than the US (I think). Their airport has a sign which says "Savoonga International Airport"...and it is. When she talks with folks she's amazed at their questions and she's always happy to answer them.
One person was honestly curious what they did during the long winter months when hunting was limited and when darkness ruled the day. "What do you do?" the gentleman asked. "Do you kind of hibernate like a bear?"
"No, she responded. There is much to be done during the winter. It is then that we are making our clothes, mending our nets, sharpening spears, fixing berry baskets, and resting our wounds. Spring will come and we need to be ready for it. We don't just sit around in the dark waiting for the light to come."
I like that last line, a lot.
Peace and thanks to all.
Alaska Jim
Date: 30 Nov 2000
Time: 00:22:01
Alaska Jim- thanks for that tibit- I think I will use it.
I find it interesting that Jesus says Heaven and Earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. Isn't heaven eternal? What is Jesus talking about here? Any Help?
Pastor Deb in Bangor, ME
Date: 30 Nov 2000
Time: 02:55:00
Pastor Deb
Heaven and earth means "everything above and everything below" means "everything". All that we see is temporary, God's Word is everlasting. Hope that helps.
Tom in TO
Date: 30 Nov 2000
Time: 03:12:43
Thanks everybody for clearing up my mind about this apocalyptic passage in Advent! Yes, I agree there's a difference between the Advent and Christmas seasons that the secular society confuses and thus confuses me!!
It's fascinating that while we see these apocalyptic passages as 'scary', like Y2K-last year, yet Jesus says, "...stand up, raise your heads!..." and "...pray that you will have strength to escape these things..."
Now, that's another thought, "escape"?? I thought at first Jesus was saying something like 'be bold to face these trials' but then he uses the word: "escape"... Is that like telling the child to 'escape' from hard labor by just doing the bare necessary homework... so to speak....? or what??
Sorry, to ramble, don't bother responding as I do realize we are all so busy at this time of the Christmas season, er, I mean, Advent season...
Blessings, Will/Erich in CT
Date: 30 Nov 2000
Time: 03:48:17
The apocalyptic message is really only scarey to those who aren't prepared. So this season of preparation is both perfect and necessary. Being a "part time" pastor and having to work a secular job Mon-Fri I have the opportunity to share reflections with many who claim Christ as Savior but not as true Lord. I am amazed at how many people celebrate Christmas but not Easter, and absolutely nothing in between! Not only is there not a cross in the manger, there is rarely a manger anymore.
Then it's time to plan the services and I fear I'm not putting enough Christmas carols into the Advent worship! Advent is four weeks, Christmas season is 12 days, but so few Advent hymns are familiar! We're going to be expanding our repertoire this year! :-)
We cannot lose sight of the reason for Christmas, and I pray that each of us are able to be vessels of God's messages this month. There are far too many in the pews who are not yet prepared - perfect tie in to the 1 Thess. readings this week.
Sorry to be so disconnected. Seems that many of us are this week...
God keep you all! wanapreech, PA
Date: 30 Nov 2000
Time: 05:13:41
Anyone have any resources for comparing the Roman occupation of 1st Century Judea with the Nazi occupation of Germany?
Date: 30 Nov 2000
Time: 10:34:51
Another thought from a Canadian in Scotland: What is your outlook on life? It occurs to me that there are three categories of people: 1. Those who are terrified by the prospect of what the future holds - nuclear crisis, wars, disasters, global warming, personal difficulties such as unemployement etc. . . 2. There are those who are indifferent to the future because what they see around them overwhelms them. These folk live for today because they don't want to think about tomorrow. 3. Then there are those whose 'present' is so hopeless that the future doesn't exist for them. Denis McBride provides an illustration: ". . .we sit in the company of the black woman from Harlem who was interviewed about her 'prospects.' Looking out of her slum dwelling she said: 'Nothing will change here. The future happens somewhere else. Always somewhere else." The Christian, however, is not to check out of the present moment and living for some 'pie in the sky' future, nor are we to live with the false optimism that this present moment with progress towards the kingdom of God. Rather, we live with confidence in the present moment because we know that Christ has come and Christ will come again. The present struggle for the kingdom of God is given meaning because of our future hope that the kingdom is coming in all its fullness. By the way, thanks to Alaska Jim for your story.
Date: 30 Nov 2000
Time: 10:35:14
Another thought from a Canadian in Scotland: What is your outlook on life? It occurs to me that there are three categories of people: 1. Those who are terrified by the prospect of what the future holds - nuclear crisis, wars, disasters, global warming, personal difficulties such as unemployement etc. . . 2. There are those who are indifferent to the future because what they see around them overwhelms them. These folk live for today because they don't want to think about tomorrow. 3. Then there are those whose 'present' is so hopeless that the future doesn't exist for them. Denis McBride provides an illustration: ". . .we sit in the company of the black woman from Harlem who was interviewed about her 'prospects.' Looking out of her slum dwelling she said: 'Nothing will change here. The future happens somewhere else. Always somewhere else." The Christian, however, is not to check out of the present moment and living for some 'pie in the sky' future, nor are we to live with the false optimism that this present moment with progress towards the kingdom of God. Rather, we live with confidence in the present moment because we know that Christ has come and Christ will come again. The present struggle for the kingdom of God is given meaning because of our future hope that the kingdom is coming in all its fullness. By the way, thanks to Alaska Jim for your story.
Date: 30 Nov 2000
Time: 13:13:22
21:32 Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all things have taken place.
How is this harmonized with the fact that these eye-witnesses did indeed pass away?
John near Pitts
Date: 30 Nov 2000
Time: 13:26:57
A number of contributions have touched on the seeming irrelevance of this passage leading up to the joyful celebration of the birth of Christ.
I believe it to be very relevant. Maybe now more than ever. Someone once said, you cannot know light without the darkness, or joy without sorrow. The whole point of Jesus' coming revolves around sorrow. Whether our own or God's, I'm not totally sure. But Christ, had no purpose, and Christmas is irrelevant without the suffering of humanity.
This passage reveals to me, our human struggle with the future. Our attempt to see into what will be.
Do any of us know what the future holds? As we live in our present moment, we can only appreciate that which we know. We strive to even know our next thought, but it comes from the dark recesses of our mind. As a society we look for answers to human suffering. Are there really any in the world who are not struggling to survive day by day? Even the excessive rich cannot escape the movements of the seasons or the vagaries of health and relationship. It rains on the rich and the poor alike, the good and the bad. What am I leading to?
I believe we can read this passage on three levels of interpretation. An historical context, a personal context or an eschatological context.
The passage from Luke, is significantly and originally designed to give hope to a church under threat. Even though it reads so depressingly negative, it is amazingly positive.
People are being tested on all fronts. Spiritually and physically, they face oppression and confusion leading to despair. Every human being knows the manner of such things. We only have to view the statistics of the western world related to stress and depression, mental illness and suicide rates, to gain a clear picture of our human condition.
Luke is writing for a church that is under threat reminding Christians to stand firm in their faith. It is into such situations as these that the Son of Man comes and brings new life. (Our baptismal life) It is into the life of the most despairing creature, that God grants his great gift of grace, with the arrival of his Christ, his anointed. And they shall call his name Immanuel, meaning "God is with us."
Just as the Jews didn't know Christ was about to be born, or indeed was among them, so the early Church could also not predict the future. It waited expectantly for the redeemer to return, in many ways not realising that he was with them all the time.
Against these gloomy backdrops of human endeavour, in the moments of deepest yearning and agony, lies the essence of the Kingdom of God. That pearl of great price that is suddenly found in the marketplace, that treasure hidden in a field that is uncovered while carrying out the normal tasks of life, that brief encounter with another who listens and shares your pain. The one who "passes over" into your experience. Those who bring hope when all seems hopeless. This is the coming of the Christ, the birth of love in a loveless landscape. God has visited his people.
I regard this as the perfect passage leading up to the event of Christmas. For me, it summarises beautifully the way Christ enters into our life and transforms our suffering into joy. The liturgical year simply re-mints the story, so that the coin is fresh and sparkling every year.
"O'come, O'come Emmanual."
My humble offerings as we prepare our people to receive again the wonder of Christmas!
Regards to all,
KGB
Date: 30 Nov 2000
Time: 14:36:17
To John near Pitt - Yes, they (and we) pass away...but perhaps "these things" Jesus speaks of happen within us, around us, and in our lives all the time - not at only one place and moment....just a thought. I have an idea of pairing this passage with Jeremiah's for this week. Jesus is not just not just saying how bad things will get, and neither do the prophets. Jesus says in the midst of exile, loss, chaos... do not forget or be afraid to look up toward redemption and renewal.In Jeremiah, the words of God say the same kind of things. The WORD is a word of hope in difficult times. In the first week of Advent I may invite the congregation to picture that with all our worries, fears, personal forms of exilee, etc., we gather around the word of God and the table of the Lord like people of exile might gather around a fire. God's word and Christ's presence at the table are like the light and warmth of a fire: the fire of hope. Jim in CT.
Date: 30 Nov 2000
Time: 14:36:38
"And that day will close on you unexpectedly LIKE A TRAP!" Those words seem to jump out at me, that is why I capitalized them. At our weekly bible study, two members brought it to our attention. Any thoughts? We get caught up in the trap of our everydayness, and at this time of year especially, the trap of consumerism and busyness of the season catches us all. If we are not careful, we may miss the coming of the Christ - in our hearts and in God's final judgment.
Date: 30 Nov 2000
Time: 14:37:35
That last contributuon was from Betty in NCNY.
Date: 30 Nov 2000
Time: 16:49:23
The quote about the stars is from Annie Dillard: If you want to see stars, you must be willing to sit in darkness. MZ in TX
Date: 30 Nov 2000
Time: 17:14:53
A church member shared the following story from World War II, I used it at his funeral, but see where it may be useful here with "the Son of Man coming in a cloud". In 1943 at the Battle of Rabual, after fierce fighting with the Japanese, the USS Saratoga was the only carrier left in the Pacific at the time. The Saratoga knew that she was the prime target for the Japanese and that they would be attacking them if they could locate them. The Saratoga put out to sea. It was a clear, blue skied day and the seas were unusually calm. The captain announce to the crew that they were "sitting ducks". Enemy planes were detected closing in on the ship. As the planes approached suddenly a heavy black fog, like a cloud surrounded the ship. The crew could hear the enemy planes overhead frantically circling trying to locate them. The ship intercepted a radio communication from the planes back to base asking for permission to return because they were running low on fuel. The planes turned to return to base and as the last plane passed out of the hearing range, the cloud lifted and it was a clear, blue skied calm day.
Scott in Texas
Date: 30 Nov 2000
Time: 18:08:30
I am a new contributor. Here are thoughts of where I am going with the passages for this week:
Jeremiah 33:14-16 anticipates the coming of Jesus. That coming will bring (brought) both promise and judgement. Two sides of the same coin are seen here regarding the coming of the Lord. Throughout scripture, the coming of the Lord involves these two elements.
Luke 21:25-36 anticipates the coming of Jesus. There are two views here. One says it is predicting the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70 (thus the explanation of "this generation"). (See Tyndale NT Commentary by Tasker for more.) Another view says it predicts the parousia. In either case, there is both promise and judgement.
1 Thess. 3:9-13 shares Paul's great joy at their faith and encourages them to live holy lives. That is our response to Jesus' coming, which involves both promise and judgement.
Advent is about preparation. The first advent was preparing for the institution of the kingdom of God. The second Advent is preparing for the consummation of the kingdom of God. You can easily tie in other Advent events and themes.
Hope this helps someone who may be struggling this week, and also answer some of the above questions regarding textual difficulties.
TCH in New York
Date: 30 Nov 2000
Time: 18:08:49
I am a new contributor. Here are thoughts of where I am going with the passages for this week:
Jeremiah 33:14-16 anticipates the coming of Jesus. That coming will bring (brought) both promise and judgement. Two sides of the same coin are seen here regarding the coming of the Lord. Throughout scripture, the coming of the Lord involves these two elements.
Luke 21:25-36 anticipates the coming of Jesus. There are two views here. One says it is predicting the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70 (thus the explanation of "this generation"). (See Tyndale NT Commentary by Tasker for more.) Another view says it predicts the parousia. In either case, there is both promise and judgement.
1 Thess. 3:9-13 shares Paul's great joy at their faith and encourages them to live holy lives. That is our response to Jesus' coming, which involves both promise and judgement.
Advent is about preparation. The first advent was preparing for the institution of the kingdom of God. The second Advent is preparing for the consummation of the kingdom of God. You can easily tie in other Advent events and themes.
Hope this helps someone who may be struggling this week, and also answer some of the above questions regarding textual difficulties.
TCH in New York
Date: 01 Dec 2000
Time: 00:29:15
David Steindl-Rast, OSB, in the Music of Silence, writes this about Matins (Night Watch):
The root meaning of the word “mystery” is to shut one’s eyes and ears. Mystery is silence, darkness. Rilke speaks in his Book of Housrs of turning inward, of looking deep into himself, and he reports what he finds: “My God is dark.” He sees a thousand theologians plunging like divers into the night of God’s name. The poet prays, “You darkness from which I come, I love you more than the flame that sets boundaries.” The shining flame lights up the things around it, but outsoide of theis arbitrary circle of light lies deep darkness, which is limitless. That darkness is symbol and image for the divine mystery, the nothingness of the divine realm…. But darkness holds everything, embraces everything, including you and me. “And maybe in this darkness a great energy stirs right near me,” the poet says, and then expresses his deepest conviction: “I trust in night.” …The good news that the Gospel of John proclaims is that the light shines right in the midst of darkness. A great revelation: the very darkness shines.
Date: 01 Dec 2000
Time: 00:30:05
Last item posted by Sharon in Bethlehem
Date: 01 Dec 2000
Time: 03:01:44
To the Canadian in Scotland,
Surely there are more than the 4 wretched types of people that you describe in your entry.
I have spent many hours in ICU and Oncology Wards and find people standing up in their faith in the face of horrific life situations.
Check on the 3 categories you would channel us all into and have hope. Hope is the difference in the darkness.
Pastor Binny
Date: 01 Dec 2000
Time: 03:08:47
To Will/Erich in CT Advent is a word derived from a Latin word which means "to come" or "coming" For Advent, we look forward to Christ's anticipated coming again, to Christ coming to us continously in Word and in Spirit, and we celebrate Christ's coming into the world.
If it is possible to hold off Christmas emphasis for a while and focus on the themes of Anticipation, Hope, Waiting, then when the Christmas celebration becomes the focus in the church, it is much more fulfillng. People celebrate Christmas on Dec. 1 and following as if it is already here.
Little wonder they are so tired of the message and carols on Dec. 26--Yet the church sasys that Christmas is a season that begins with Christmas Day.
For Will in CT and wanapreech, PA As for the Scripture having a frightening undertone to it, it does, no matter how much faith we have. Christ talks about that time with troublesome words and phrases--weighed down heart, pray that you can stand--pray that you can escape all these things--it should prompt us to cling to our Christian faith and the presence of the Holy Spirit
Advent is here!! Join the journey to the manger
STAN in TN
Date: 01 Dec 2000
Time: 03:12:54
BETTY -NCNY I was drawn to that phrase the day close on you like a trap. What it said to me was that the trap would be to be distracted until what you are waiting for goes by to be gone forever.
Like waiting all night to watch for shooting stars and look down for a minute to hear everyone else go, "OOhh,aahh" and you are trapped, you missed it.
Remember that commercial with the lady whale-watcher waiting to see a rare whale and looking down to get a mint or something and the whale surfaces while she is looking down. That's my early thoughts
STAN in TN
Date: 01 Dec 2000
Time: 11:42:56
Pastor Binney from a Canadian in Scotland: I think you have misunderstood me. . .then again, perhaps not. First, I didn't want to suggest there are only three categories of people. . .I was simply suggesting that there are different types of 'hopelessness'. Second, the contrast I was attempting to make was between those people who DO NOT have hope in their darkness because they do not know Christ as compared with those who HAVE hope in the darkness BECAUSE of Christ. By the way, I too, have spent many hours with those who are suffering and dying. Hope in the darkness exists because Christ came, is here, and will come again. As I said earlier, 'The present struggle for the kingdom of God is given meaning because of our future hope that the kingdom is coming in all its fullness.'
Date: 01 Dec 2000
Time: 13:33:57
I think the emphasis on the TRAP is that a trap catches suddenly, BAM! and unexpectedly. Jesus is warning His listeners to pay attention and to live like the event (The Day of the Lord, if you will) has already taken place.
The already but not yet also refers to how we are to live...that we are to live "on earth as it is in heaven." Doing this is the best way to spot and "disarm" any traps.
John near Pitts.
Date: 01 Dec 2000
Time: 16:14:07
To KGB:
Thank you for your eloquent treatment of this passage. I will use the movement from past to present to future hope as the framework for my sermon. It is echoed in the communion liturgy we will use this Sunday - "Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again."
And one other thing - I believe the root of the word "Advent" also comes into our language in the word "adventure". So pack your bags for the journey!
Bo in KY
Date: 01 Dec 2000
Time: 17:27:30
Alaska Jim - do you have relatives in Kettle Falls, Washington? If so email me back at:stcox_2000@yahoo.net. Pardon me everyone for trying to contact a long lost relative! sc in Midland.
Date: 01 Dec 2000
Time: 18:47:36
Dear brothers and sisters in Christ, I appreciate so much all the input you give and the help in fleshing out ideas for sermons. As a lay pastor, I can use all the help I can get. I don't have anything profound to say, but wanted to comment on the "TRAP" comments. Strong's Greek Dictionary gives the definition like this: pagis-A trap (as fastened by a noose or notch); fig. A trick or stratagem (temptation):--snare. I wonder if this doesn't mean that we are not to give in to the temptation to think the time of Christ's second coming is far off and we have plenty of time to make the decision to give our lives to Christ. Or perhaps the temptation is to believe Christ is coming soon so we'd better have our fun now, before it's too late.
A sermon by Richard Fairchild tells of a Calvin and Hobbes comic strip. In the first frame Calvin speaks to Hobbes and says, "Live for the moment is my motto. You never know how long you got." In the second frame, he explains, "You could step into the road tomorrow and, WHAM, you get hit by a cement truck! Then you'd be sorry you put off your pleasures. That's what I say, live for the moment." And then he asks Hobbes, "What's your motto?" Hobbes replies, "My motto is-Look down the road."
pastorbeth in TN
Date: 01 Dec 2000
Time: 18:48:50
Dear brothers and sisters in Christ, I appreciate so much all the input you give and the help in fleshing out ideas for sermons. As a lay pastor, I can use all the help I can get. I don't have anything profound to say, but wanted to comment on the "TRAP" comments. Strong's Greek Dictionary gives the definition like this: pagis-A trap (as fastened by a noose or notch); fig. A trick or stratagem (temptation):--snare. I wonder if this doesn't mean that we are not to give in to the temptation to think the time of Christ's second coming is far off and we have plenty of time to make the decision to give our lives to Christ. Or perhaps the temptation is to believe Christ is coming soon so we'd better have our fun now, before it's too late.
A sermon by Richard Fairchild tells of a Calvin and Hobbes comic strip. In the first frame Calvin speaks to Hobbes and says, "Live for the moment is my motto. You never know how long you got." In the second frame, he explains, "You could step into the road tomorrow and, WHAM, you get hit by a cement truck! Then you'd be sorry you put off your pleasures. That's what I say, live for the moment." And then he asks Hobbes, "What's your motto?" Hobbes replies, "My motto is-Look down the road."
pastorbeth in TN
Date: 01 Dec 2000
Time: 18:52:53
I haven't been following the discussion lately....so I just got to John near Pitt’s comment: "21:32 Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all things have taken place. How is this harmonized with the fact that these eye-witnesses did indeed pass away? "
John Shearman, moderator of the “Midrash” listserve, recently shared the “contrarian viewpoint of an Anglican colleague that the Second Coming of Christ is, in fact, Pentecost. “
“The coming of the Spirit *IS* the Second Coming of Christ. He is here now among us, but not recognized or acknowledged except by those who live by the Spirit. The eschaton has arrived, but has not yet been completely revealed in the life of the world.”
Fred Craddock thinks that “the reason so many folk spend so much time speculating on the "parousia" and 2nd Coming, is because they do not like his first coming.”
Jesus did not live according to the conventions of His society and religion. His approach was much more radical.(For one thing, Jesus seemed to place a primary emphasis on caring for those folks whom his society shunned. Women. Children. The poor.) Jesus’ disciples (as well as the religious leaders of His day) often tried to talk Jesus out of his actions. Do we?
Or do we sometimes get so wrapped up in "church" (the rituals, the formalities, the structure) that we forget to BE the church to the "lst, the least, and the lost"?
crystal
Date: 01 Dec 2000
Time: 19:28:14
I just think we have to come to terms with the idea that ALL of the NT authors believed that theirs would be the last generation before the 2nd coming of Christ. They thought the time was very short (Paul thought that single people should stay single) When Christ didn't come back like they thought he would, they had to rethink their theology. See 2 Peter 3:8-10. What do we do with the idea that the NT authors were wrong about something? Do we try to explain it away? Or do we have to change our view of scripture?
Larry cny
Date: 01 Dec 2000
Time: 21:56:02
These lessons (especially Zechariah and Luke) point to a kind of helplessness, out of controlness, no longer able to depend on those things that gave meaning and security - everything is being shaken and uprooted.
This is really a scarey predictament - losing myself in the midst of upheaval (no matter how we define it). It is only when I am no longer self-sufficient or self-powerful or in control that God comes - it is in those moments of desolation that God transforms my life.
The themes of early Advent point toward winter, darkness, wilderness, barronness, before they begin to speak of furtility, birth, epiphany; yet it is interesting that in Zechariah we already have news about living water flowing and in Luke a fig tree budding ... While we are frightened by the portents of the heavens, God comes to us in the ordinary things of life ... if we only had eyes we could truly see ...
tom in ga
Date: 01 Dec 2000
Time: 22:01:25
Pastor Beth in TN
I like your cartoon illustration. The gospel according to Calviln and Hobbs. It says it very nicely.
Where in TN are you?
Another TN Vol
Date: 01 Dec 2000
Time: 22:13:00
Just a little thought!
What is it we anticipate at Christmas - celebrating the memory of the birth of Christ; joining with family (the Holy Family) during this holiday season, receiving gifts from Santa Claus and others, going to parties; a time to participate in the Midnight Mass - staying up late, getting up early.
It seems to me that the preacher has a really difficult task - moving from what everyone is expecting to be proclaimed to proclaim that which is difficult to hear - only those who are already despairing will have their ears open; the rest of us will be just as comfortable as last year, or the last 60 years, and once again Christmas will come and go and we still will not have heard the good news, that a Son is born for us! Will I be ready this time?
tom in ga
Date: 02 Dec 2000
Time: 01:29:19
Well no one will probably see this comment since all of you more responsible preachers have surely finished your Advent sermon on Wednesday or Thursday and are not here at the last moment trying to dig something up like I am :)
But...
The context of the Luke (and the Jeremiah) passage is essential for interpreting it. These people were in fear and oppression. They were in exile (Jer.) and so for these people any change is good change. Signs in the sun, cataclysmic events only threaten their oppressors because for the people death would be merely a release. They welcome change/cataclysm and therefore they stand up and raise their head, and know that God is coming...and they welcome this salvation.
Date: 02 Dec 2000
Time: 02:48:25
Ditto the previous post that most of you won't see this because you're done with your sermons on Friday night, not just beginning as I am.
For what its worth: Darrell Bock in the NIV Application Commentary says: Jesus taught about the end times, he didn't major in it. (can't find the exact quote)
Somewhere there is a compromise between what our folks' expect/want from Advent & what they need to hear. If any of you find it, let me know! If we are too harsh, they will close their ears and their hearts, yet if we do not challenge them, they will never hear the Good News. Then there will be no joy for them because they have no hope.
RevJan
Date: 02 Dec 2000
Time: 05:18:47
To the Canadian in Scotland
I think I misunderstood your point, and stand corrected. I think we agree on the source of our hope.
Here's a good ole down country way of saying for you - "I may tremble as I stand upon the Rock, but the Rock never has trembled beneath me!"
Pastor Binny the humble
Date: 02 Dec 2000
Time: 15:12:30
During the week I had to journey to a place where I had never been before. Because I had never been there before I had to plan before I began my journey Life is full of journeys and new beginnings. First Sunday in Advent is the beginning of a new Church year. The Church's year covers the story of our own life’s journey but also the story of the Universe through space and time, and where we fit into that story. It looks back but also looks forward. Before you begin any journey it’s important to think about where you are going to finish up, your destination. In my journey during the week my destination was new to me, so I had to get out my map to find out where it was and how exactly I would get there, what difficulties I might meet on the way, like traffic, weather, possible floods because the weather forecast was dire. Now I wasn’t piloting a plane, you can imagine how much more difficult that would be. I was travelling by car on a relatively short journey, which took me through some familiar places not too far from where I once lived. I feel Advent is a call to a new beginning to go back to the beginning and start again. This involves looking back on our lives up to this time but also, more importantly looking forward to foresee the difficulties we might encounter and how we might cope with them. The Church in our readings during Advent points especially to the end of time and our ultimate destiny to be with the Lord. Although the descriptions of the end of time in its very vivid and figurative language can be off putting and even frightening, the core of the Chuch's message is to be confident. Stay awake praying at all times for the strength to survive all that is going to happen, and to stand with confidence before the Son of Man. And the reason for our confidence, God has sent his Son into the world to become one of us, to live among us, to show us the way and to journey with us on our way.
Date: 02 Dec 2000
Time: 15:18:46
During the week I had to journey to a place where I had never been before. Because I had never been there before I had to plan before I began my journey Life is full of journeys and new beginnings. First Sunday in Advent is the beginning of a new Church year. The Church's year covers the story of our own life’s journey but also the story of the Universe through space and time, and where we fit into that story. It looks back but also looks forward. Before you begin any journey it’s important to think about where you are going to finish up, your destination. In my journey during the week my destination was new to me, so I had to get out my map to find out where it was and how exactly I would get there, what difficulties I might meet on the way, like traffic, weather, possible floods because the weather forecast was dire. Now I wasn’t piloting a plane, you can imagine how much more difficult that would be. I was travelling by car on a relatively short journey, which took me through some familiar places not too far from where I once lived. I feel Advent is a call to a new beginning to go back to the beginning and start again. This involves looking back on our lives up to this time but also, more importantly looking forward to foresee the difficulties we might encounter and how we might cope with them. The Church in our readings during Advent points especially to the end of time and our ultimate destiny to be with the Lord. Although the descriptions of the end of time in its very vivid and figurative language can be off putting and even frightening, the core of the Chuch's message is to be confident. Stay awake praying at all times for the strength to survive all that is going to happen, and to stand with confidence before the Son of Man. And the reason for our confidence, God has sent his Son into the world to become one of us, to live among us, to show us the way and to journey with us on our way. J.K.
Date: 02 Dec 2000
Time: 18:28:15
This message is for Crystal in response to her assertion thatthe coming of the Spirit IS the second coming of Christ. Be careful here, the Spirit is an essence and being unto itself and is not to be equated with Christ; Christ sent the spirit but the coming of the spirit IS DEFINITELY NOT the second coming aof Christ.
Date: 02 Dec 2000
Time: 20:07:21
Dear Friends, Thanks for all the good thoughts. This was not a Scripture that I looked forward to preaching, but need to use it this year. I have been bothered for years with the notion of not singing Christmas Carols during Advent. If we are to be a church that is preparing and looking forward to Christmas then we should be retelling the story as often as we can. When we sing the Carols we are simply retelling the story of the birth of Christ. Why should we be any different than the secular world that tries to get it's message of Christmas (as it were --- buying and selling and decorating). After all we enjoy the Christmas foods long before the actuual day of Christmas and good cheer we feel for others. We certainly don't deny choirs their Canatas during the Sundays of Advent. In our community I am one of the few Pastors that use Christmas Carols all throughout Advent. The people love it, as is evident from the number of visitors from the other churches in town. They tell me they come to hear our music and to sing the Carols because their Pastor's won't let them. So give it another thought, tell the story, sing the carols. Why try to compact so wonderful a celebration to the 12 days from Dec. 25 on ( how often in those days do you really see the people in church?) Have a great Advent and the best of Christmases. quiltrev in Blue Island, Ill.
Date: 02 Dec 2000
Time: 21:43:36
To quiltrev in Blue Island, IL:
I have yet to punch out my sermon for tomorrow but felt I had to take a moment to respond to your comment. As a new pastor, I recently found myself in the midst of the arguments for and against the singing of carols in Advent; when and how soon to decorate the Christmas tree, etc. etc. The battle cry, "Everyone else is doing it," does not, however, seem to me to be a convincing argument.
There are two primary celebrations within the Christian year: Christmas and Easter, Incarnation and Resurrection. It is on these two events that our Christian hope is founded. Each are preceded by a season of preparation and waiting: Christmas, by Advent; Easter, by Lent and Holy Week.
We would never think to decorate with Easter lilies or joyfully sing, “Christ the Lord Has Risen Today,” before Easter. To do so would to distract from the solemnity of Lent and the salvific events of Holy Week, to defuse the power and wonder of the Easter miracle.
Advent is a time of preparation and waiting too. Preparing and waiting for the miracle of the Incarnation we celebrate at Christmas. These precious four weeks have, however, been contaminated by the secular celebration of the winter holiday that is only loosely connected to the story of Christian faith and hope.
Just as one is better able to appreciate the glorious music of a symphony when one is settled and quiet . . . so it is, too, I believe, with the wonder of Christmas . . . we first need to settle ourselves, to turn down the noise of the world around us . . .
We are children of the story . . . a story that has been told and retold . . . a story for which we already know the outcome . . . Advent is a gift; it is a precious oasis from the busyness and consumerism of a Christmas season already in progress . . . it gives us the gift of time---time to ready our hearts and our minds to hear again that which we know to be true: Christ has come. Christ is present. Christ will come again.
Wishing you a blessed and hope-filled Advent, PJ in NJ
Date: 02 Dec 2000
Time: 22:04:20
to PJ in NJ, Boy isn't Seminary a wonderful thing. I am assuming that you went to seminary from the way you write. It teaches us so many wonderful ideas and ideals to carry into the Parish with us. The only problem is that the people of the Parish do not have the same understanding of the Advent season. You assume that "we are a people of the story" Well I have found that there are still many people in the church that have not really heard the story. Yes we need to ready ourselves for the Christmas celebration, and we need to be a light in the dark world of consumerism and glitz. Therefore we need to offer the people the comforting sounds of the Carols. I hope that you will accept this as just a bit of widsom from an "old" pastor to a new pastor. Have a great season. quiltrev in BI.
Date: 02 Dec 2000
Time: 23:48:05
To: Another TN Vol. I'm located in Manchester
To PJ in NJ: I haven't thought this through really, but there seems to be a difference between preparing for death, especially a death that One's disciples don't really believe is going to happen, and a birth, which is unmistakably going to happen. There are signs way in advance that a birth is going to take place and everybody gets involved in the preparations. It seems that carols are a way of preparing for the birth of the Christ child, rather than supplanting the joy of the actual event. I, too, feel cheated that we can't sing carols before Dec. 25. Who made the rules anyway?! Pastorbeth in TN
Date: 02 Dec 2000
Time: 23:50:16
To quiltrev: A note of support for PJ in NJ.
You say we should sing Christmas carols early in church just as the secular world does, then you say the people of the Parish do not have the same understanding of Advent as PJ and others. Is it because they've been caught up in the beautiful sounds of Christmas carols, rather than hearing the message of Advent?
I'm sorry that you felt it necessary to come down on PJ as you did with your sarcasm about seminary. Although I've not been to seminary, I also choose to focus on the beautiful songs of Advent until it is the season of Christmas.
PLLPO Pocono Licensed Local Pastor Only
Date: 03 Dec 2000
Time: 00:28:55
Please don't let sarcasm injure the dialogue on this site. Seminary is indeed a wonderful thing. So is a thoughtful consideration of the pros and cons of making the distinction between Advent and Christmas.
I always felt that the reason that I went to seminary was to dedicate a portion of my life to thinking deeply about Godly things. Many have not had the luxury of years to study and dwell in "the story". Yet I have the priviledge to share the wonderful discoveries I made and continue to make from my immersion and reflection on scripture and the traditions of the church.
If people don't know the story, it is my right and honor to teach it to them. Even the part of the story that is about waiting and longing and making a space in my life for welcoming what is yet to come.
If you want to sing Christmas carols and please the members of neighboring churches who visit during advent, go ahead. But please recognize that others who choose a different way may not be choosing that way out of ignorance. As I understand it, we are free in Christ.
To each his or her own.
Another ol' pastor
Date: 03 Dec 2000
Time: 03:59:08
In a world of instant gratification and instant communication, Advent is indeed counter-cultural.
Yet, the church and its people are in the waiting mode. Pregnancy takes time. Waiting can be spiritually rewarding.
In the cartoon "For Better or For Worse" a while back - April was four years old at the time, she is in the kitchen with her mother where her mom is doing chores. April goes up to her mother and says, "How long is it until Christmas?" Her mother said, "Three weeks."
April said, "Three weeks! I don't want to wait. I want Christmas to be NOW. I want it to snow NOW. I want to have a pony NOW. Why do I always have to wait?"
So April's mother says, "Well, April, if you didn't wait, then there wouldn't be any surprises, or there wouldn't be any excitement. Everything would be the same."
April says,"Oh?" Then she thought for a moment, and she says, "I can live with that."
Things and events that are worthwhile have to do with waiting and preparing.
Advent is a gift to anxious people. Slow down. Get off the treadmill and take time to wait.
Another old pastor,
Ron in Kings Mills, Ohio
Date: 03 Dec 2000
Time: 05:01:44
Greetings all you preachers burning the midnight oil! I find it interesting that no one has brought up the current affairs in regards to election 2000. I am not going to use the pulpit tommorow to talk politics, but I am going to highlight disturbing conversations I've had with Christians who are so caught up in fear of what may or may not happen that they seek solace from their opinions compared to listening to God's voice. I'm going to challenge the congregation to spend time and energy in prayer and God's word, listening to God's voice and God's wisdom - no one is more counter cultural than Jesus. Advent is very counter cultural - I can't help but think of Psalm 46, "Be still and know that I am God." Blessings. PR in Iowa